CallerID issue

[haucke]

We just changed carriers.  We have a Mitel 5000 at each office.  Our new Carrier lines will not allow our 5000 to send CallerID info out unless that number is associated with the main line for that 5000 unit.  I have programmed the CallerID for the CO Trunks as well as each extension and when someone forwards their phone to their mobile the Main (CO Trunk) ID shows.  I assume this is because the 5000 is placing the call... but it places the call.  The problem I am running into is that when another office calls their extension the call does not go out and they get (as they call it) dead air.  My assumption is that apparently when another 5000 originates the call via extension the Destination 5000 unit is using the CallerID from the originating 5000 and not it's own?  Can I alter this behavior? Can I prove this is happening?

fyi I believe our old line would allow us to provide a caller id and if we did not it would add our main number as the CallerID.  With new carrier it is all or nothing.

[Tech Electronics]

Haucke,

Sorry I wasn't on earlier, but this is an easy solution if I understand the problem correctly.

Problem: You changed carriers to a new PRI and the carrier gave you control of Outbound Caller ID but did not Allow for Non-Native Caller ID.

Answer: So with this scenario the information you programmed in each station for their Calling Party Number or Emergency Calling Party Number as well as Setting the Station Flags for Propagate Original Caller ID on Transfer would allow the call to go out but with the Billed Telephone Number (BTN) and my guess is that you did not Check the flag within the CO Trunk Group to Propagate Original Caller ID or you Set the Calling Party Number up with their BTN. When you set the CO Trunk Group Calling Party Name and Party Calling Number as well as Propagate Original Caller ID again the carrier will allow the call to go out with whatever number you put in the Calling Party Number if it is within the White List of numbers for that PRI and ignore what you provide from a station. When another phone on the secondary system calls you have it set to Propagate Caller ID, but that number is not within the white list of the PRI for that system and the call is rejected.

You can verify this by turning on what used to be called HON/DON within the PRI and is now called something along the lines of Layer 2 D-Channel Information. Basically what you are looking at is the setup message for the call on the PRI and it will tell you what is being sent out and how. If you need help with this let me know.

When a call is rejected by the carrier this way you can either get Dead Air, Busy Tone, or reissued Dial Tone.

What you need to do is either request the carrier to "Allow for Non-Native Caller ID" if you want those features to work properly; especially with Dynamic Extension Express.

Your other option is to turn off all the Propagate Original Caller ID flags is both Station Flags as well as CO Trunk Groups.

If you need any clarification on this subject then just let me know.

Thanks,

TE

[Crowtalks]

I have a couple of questions.

I do believe Tech Electronic has addressed part of your question, but possibly not all of it.

If I understand you question correctly, it sounds like your old Telco carrier allowed Customer provided CLOP (Call Line Outbound Presentation) as the originating caller ID across the PRI that you are using as your outbound trunks (forwarding an extension to a cell shows the main number), this feature is important especially if you have IP phones at remote locations so they can send out the correct 911 info.

By default, Telcos don't allow this feature unless specifically requested and sometimes it is an additional charge, by default many only present the billing number as outbound caller ID presentation and this sound like your case. You may be able to get hold of your telco and request their data-base administration modify the PRI to allow this feature.

It sounds like your systems are networked together, are you using T1/PRI or IP for your private network?

thanks, Jim



Are both your

[Tech Electronics]

Crowtalks,

Where did you get the term CLOP (Call Line Outbound Presentation) from? I know what CLIP (Calling Line Identification Presentation) is, but I have never heard it presented as CLOP; is this what the carriers in your area call it? Usually when I talked to the switch tech I asked for control of Outbound ANI (Automatic Number Identification) or Outbound Caller ID depending on the carrier as none of them knew what CLIP meant.

I am curious about that terminology and if it is accurate maybe that would be a better way of having customers present it to their carrier when asking for that feature.

Thanks,

TE

[Crowtalks]

Hi, I initially learned the terms CLOP call outbound line presentation from a class (either Mitel or Meridian or Alcatel or...) The local database admins (which would have gone to DMS training, so it probably was one of the Meridian training courses where I picked it up) understood and used the acronym. I had used CLIP in the past as you, but I started using CLOP (sounds like a horse) I suppose because of the Frontier DB tech I spoke to on a regular basis used it. It was probably of Nortel origin.

I agree that outbound calling ID is probably the safest term to use globally, for I have discovered many of the terms we use in my area, when I speak to other company techs from different areas, sometimes we have no clue what each other is referring to because our acronyms seem to be regional  or "old company" specific (my area would have been acquired from company A and theirs are may have been acquired from company B, etc)

Jim

[popolou]

Had a similar issue and we requested BT to enable COLP too. Stumped us at first I must admit....

[haucke]

Wow, there is a novel...

I have set the Calling Party Number for each extension and each CO Trunk and done so at each location.  I have propagate Original Caller ID set to "no" in all cases.  The net effect is when someone calls out their ID is their DID.  If their phone is forwarded and an outside call is made to their extension then the call is forwarded out via the phone system and thus the DID I set in CO Trunk is used (I believe the BTN.)  The problem comes with the call originates from another office via extension calling and the destination is forwarded, It appears that the destination 5000 unit tries to use the originating Calling Party Number which is not assigned to the destination 5000 unit...

Tulsa extension 11111 (Tulsa 5000: 111-111-1111) calls extension 22222 which is in (Dallas 5000: 222-222-2222)  When 22222 is forwarded to their mobile Dallas 5000 atempts to dial out to mobile and uses the DID for 11111.  Our carrier drops the attempt because 11111 DID is not associated with the 222-222-2222.

Haucke,

Sorry I wasn't on earlier, but this is an easy solution if I understand the problem correctly.

Problem: You changed carriers to a new PRI and the carrier gave you control of Outbound Caller ID but did not Allow for Non-Native Caller ID.

Answer: So with this scenario the information you programmed in each station for their Calling Party Number or Emergency Calling Party Number as well as Setting the Station Flags for Propagate Original Caller ID on Transfer would allow the call to go out but with the Billed Telephone Number (BTN) and my guess is that you did not Check the flag within the CO Trunk Group to Propagate Original Caller ID or you Set the Calling Party Number up with their BTN. When you set the CO Trunk Group Calling Party Name and Party Calling Number as well as Propagate Original Caller ID again the carrier will allow the call to go out with whatever number you put in the Calling Party Number if it is within the White List of numbers for that PRI and ignore what you provide from a station. When another phone on the secondary system calls you have it set to Propagate Caller ID, but that number is not within the white list of the PRI for that system and the call is rejected.

You can verify this by turning on what used to be called HON/DON within the PRI and is now called something along the lines of Layer 2 D-Channel Information. Basically what you are looking at is the setup message for the call on the PRI and it will tell you what is being sent out and how. If you need help with this let me know.

When a call is rejected by the carrier this way you can either get Dead Air, Busy Tone, or reissued Dial Tone.

What you need to do is either request the carrier to "Allow for Non-Native Caller ID" if you want those features to work properly; especially with Dynamic Extension Express.

Your other option is to turn off all the Propagate Original Caller ID flags is both Station Flags as well as CO Trunk Groups.

If you need any clarification on this subject then just let me know.

Thanks,

TE

[Tech Electronics]

Haucke,

So I am reading your post,

"I have set the Calling Party Number for each extension and each CO Trunk and done so at each location.  I have propagate Original Caller ID set to "no" in all cases.  The net effect is when someone calls out their ID is their DID"

. This is normal operating procedure and is working as expected.

"If their phone is forwarded and an outside call is made to their extension then the call is forwarded out via the phone system and thus the DID I set in CO Trunk is used (I believe the BTN.)"

. This is more a matter if Propagate Caller ID set to No as well as having the DID set in the CO Trunk Group; working as expected.

The problem comes with the call originates from another office via extension calling and the destination is forwarded, It appears that the destination 5000 unit tries to use the originating Calling Party Number which is not assigned to the destination 5000 unit

. Again this is expected as it is using its Calling Party Number of that station since the information is being sent with it and you do not have Non-Native Caller ID available on either of your PRIs.

Tulsa extension 11111 (Tulsa 5000: 111-111-1111) calls extension 22222 which is in (Dallas 5000: 222-222-2222)  When 22222 is forwarded to their mobile Dallas 5000 atempts to dial out to mobile and uses the DID for 11111.  Our carrier drops the attempt because 11111 DID is not associated with the 222-222-2222

. Try taking the Calling Party Number Information out of station 11111 and try it and it should work.

Thanks,

TE

[haucke]

Well found the real issue...  When you ask your line provider how their lines are configured you would expect them to tell you the truth.  I have 6 locations and after days of testing I have proven they have several of my sites configured differently so what I thought my 5000s were doing differently was in fact the provider doing differently.  A lot of wasted time.

Here is what I need to know...  Is there a way I can prefix all outbound calls to have either a *15 or a 999?  This will allow me to push out an originating Caller ID.  I have one 5000 that will let forward to a number containing more than 10 digits, however all my other 5000s give an "Unable to Route" error if you attempt to forward your phone to more than 10 digits.  If I had some documentation on this...

Also the provider committed to bring consistency to the lines at all locations.

[Tech Electronics]

Hauke,

It is good you found the culprit as for you other questions i have an answer for one of them.

You can add digits to you outbound calls via the dial rules under numbering plan. Once you create the rule you can add it to the dial rules of a facility group.

If you are looking to absorb digits on incoming calls you do that under the CO Trunk Group under Toll Restriction.

As for the forwarding I have not run into that one before, but do you have some sort of Class of Service that could be blocking it? So if they are not allowed to dial long distance it will fail due to not being able to dial the [Q]TN+ or [Q]TE calls which would be beyond 10 digits. So in this case the [Q] is an optional equal access since it is in brackets and the T is for toll digit 1, the N is any digit 2-9 and the E is for end of pattern no other digits allowed beyond this point. You can find the information for these strings under numbering plan Toll Strings and if you use the help menu it will explain what some of the optional dialing characters are.

Thanks,

TE

[haucke]

Thanks for the quick reply.  All the acronyms makes my eyes glaze over.  I am not a phone guy, just an IT manager who inherited 6 5000 units.  the Help seems to focus on where to find the settings not really what they do and how it affect call flow etc...  Is there a PDF or book out there.  I self teach all the time but I do not have documentation to study.  The only PDF I find online do not speak to concept or workflow of the 5000 programming.

[Tech Electronics]

Haucke,

Well you can go to docs.mitel.com and look for the installation and maintenance or features and programming manuals, but I do not know if it will be much help since I haven't looked at a manual since Axxess 5.0.

Anyway, the majority of the knowledge most of the technicians have is through OJT since you normally don't have a manual that explains call flow or work flow in the 5000 much less any other system I have worked on.

Thanks,

TE

[haucke]

Hauke,

It is good you found the culprit as for you other questions i have an answer for one of them.

You can add digits to you outbound calls via the dial rules under numbering plan. Once you create the rule you can add it to the dial rules of a facility group.

If you are looking to absorb digits on incoming calls you do that under the CO Trunk Group under Toll Restriction.

As for the forwarding I have not run into that one before, but do you have some sort of Class of Service that could be blocking it? So if they are not allowed to dial long distance it will fail due to not being able to dial the [Q]TN+ or [Q]TE calls which would be beyond 10 digits. So in this case the [Q] is an optional equal access since it is in brackets and the T is for toll digit 1, the N is any digit 2-9 and the E is for end of pattern no other digits allowed beyond this point. You can find the information for these strings under numbering plan Toll Strings and if you use the help menu it will explain what some of the optional dialing characters are.

Thanks,

TE

Ok then I will try to figure out the [Q]s and Ts and toll digit and all that stuff...[Q]TN? vs [Q]TE?

[Tech Electronics]

Haucke,

I thought I posted this earlier, but I guess it didn't go through before shutting down my system. Read this document and it might help you understand it a little better.

Thanks,

TE

[haucke]

Thanks Greatly Appreciated!