Ring Group question

[MitelNoobie]

I have created a Ring Group with the Terminal Cascade ring option (3300 system). I have extended these with external hotdesking to their mobiles.

Idea would be that the first person in the list always gets the calls first once available again. If not available, it should be transfered to the other available members.

The first person in the Ring Group is Present, but away from the phone for whatever reason. The mobile phone keeps ringing, but then it falls back to a system message, instead of going to the next Present member.

How does this exactly work?

Once the system sees the first member is Present, but that person accidentally doesn't answer, does Call Rerouting Alternatives for that person come into play? Or is that inherent to the Terminal Cascade Ring option?

If so, I don't get it:

Terminal Cascade Ring: Rings the first available member starting from position 1; continue searching until an available member is found.

Shouldn't it continue searching if the first person is Present, but doesn't answer?

[MitelNoobie]

No one any idea?

[mark.vanderheijden]

Did you program the cascade ring timer? And do you have any call rerouting programmed on the ring group or overflow point and what are the timers?

[MitelNoobie]

Did you program the cascade ring timer? And do you have any call rerouting programmed on the ring group or overflow point and what are the timers?

Call ringing timer is 20, cascade ringing timer is 20 and Call Queued Timer also 20 seconds. I have not programmed a overflow point, but intend to do this later on for voicemail. It felt like the mobile phone kept ringing for at least 15 seconds the few times i tried it, before it hit the mobile's VM, but it could be 20 seconds as well (didn't time it exactly with a stopwatch or anything).

The ring group number was originally a hotdesk extension, which i removed. Then i created the ring group with the same number.

The Call Rerouting form says 1 for First Alternative and 1 for Second Alternative which is our default. Night and day are also all set to 1.

If the conditions are met, it is routed to a hunt group with all IVR ports attached.

First alternative everything is set to "This", except for Busy/DND Int which says "Normal", as well as No Answer Int.

Second alternative everything is set to "This", which is also routed to the same hunt group with IVR ports attached.

I am not sure where i end up on this hunt group, but it seems to be our default position since it is on position number 1.


Looking at the first extension itself, which is a new hotdesk number i generated, i kept all call rerouting for first and second alternative set to 1. Just the same like the ring group number.



The testing was done with my own mobile phone, which was not connected to the PBX via external hotdesking, so to the PBX it must be seen as a true out of the orgination call. I did not hide my mobile number.

[NEPhoneGuy]

Sounds like a timer issue. I believe the Call Ringing timer is the life of the call in the ring group. If you want each of your members to ring for a 20s before moving on you will need to move up your call ringing timer to account for 20s per member or until you want the call to redirect away from the ring group.

[MitelNoobie]

Sounds like a timer issue. I believe the Call Ringing timer is the life of the call in the ring group. If you want each of your members to ring for a 20s before moving on you will need to move up your call ringing timer to account for 20s per member or until you want the call to redirect away from the ring group.

I did a small test. I created a ring group where I added my personal extension (via external hotdesking) to forward to my private mobile number.

I put myself as the first and only member of that ring group and made myself Present.

Test 1: After 20 seconds i got redirected to the hunt group with IVR.

Test 2: After 20 seconds i end up in my private mobile's VM

Test 3: Changed Call Ringing timer to 40 seconds, mobile still rings only 20 seconds and then my private mobile's VM

Test 4: Call Ringing timer still 40 seconds, mobile still rings only 20 seconds and then my private mobile's VM

I read that the setting of 20 seconds of ringing before entering Voicemail is hardcoded by my private mobile provider. I can't explain why i got redirected to the hunt group with IVR in the first test though.

Is it safe to say that if a member is Present, they should be ready within 20 seconds to answer any call, else it will end up in the VM?

Call rerouting of my newly created ring group and my personal extension all default to 1, i.e. the huntgroup to IVR.

I am not sure if even an Overflow point will start working, as soon as someone is Present but doesn't answer the call. Probably will end up in personal VM as well?

[NEPhoneGuy]

Sounds like a timer issue. I believe the Call Ringing timer is the life of the call in the ring group. If you want each of your members to ring for a 20s before moving on you will need to move up your call ringing timer to account for 20s per member or until you want the call to redirect away from the ring group.

I did a small test. I created a ring group where I added my personal extension (via external hotdesking) to forward to my private mobile number.

I put myself as the first and only member of that ring group and made myself Present.

Test 1: After 20 seconds i got redirected to the hunt group with IVR.

Test 2: After 20 seconds i end up in my private mobile's VM

Test 3: Changed Call Ringing timer to 40 seconds, mobile still rings only 20 seconds and then my private mobile's VM

Test 4: Call Ringing timer still 40 seconds, mobile still rings only 20 seconds and then my private mobile's VM

I read that the setting of 20 seconds of ringing before entering Voicemail is hardcoded by my private mobile provider. I can't explain why i got redirected to the hunt group with IVR in the first test though.

Is it safe to say that if a member is Present, they should be ready within 20 seconds to answer any call, else it will end up in the VM?

Call rerouting of my newly created ring group and my personal extension all default to 1, i.e. the huntgroup to IVR.

I am not sure if even an Overflow point will start working, as soon as someone is Present but doesn't answer the call. Probably will end up in personal VM as well?

You added several variables with the external hotdesking. Do you have normal internal extensions to test the timers with and establish a baseline function of ring groups and timers.

[MitelNoobie]

Sounds like a timer issue. I believe the Call Ringing timer is the life of the call in the ring group. If you want each of your members to ring for a 20s before moving on you will need to move up your call ringing timer to account for 20s per member or until you want the call to redirect away from the ring group.

I did a small test. I created a ring group where I added my personal extension (via external hotdesking) to forward to my private mobile number.

I put myself as the first and only member of that ring group and made myself Present.

Test 1: After 20 seconds i got redirected to the hunt group with IVR.

Test 2: After 20 seconds i end up in my private mobile's VM

Test 3: Changed Call Ringing timer to 40 seconds, mobile still rings only 20 seconds and then my private mobile's VM

Test 4: Call Ringing timer still 40 seconds, mobile still rings only 20 seconds and then my private mobile's VM

I read that the setting of 20 seconds of ringing before entering Voicemail is hardcoded by my private mobile provider. I can't explain why i got redirected to the hunt group with IVR in the first test though.

Is it safe to say that if a member is Present, they should be ready within 20 seconds to answer any call, else it will end up in the VM?

Call rerouting of my newly created ring group and my personal extension all default to 1, i.e. the huntgroup to IVR.

I am not sure if even an Overflow point will start working, as soon as someone is Present but doesn't answer the call. Probably will end up in personal VM as well?

You added several variables with the external hotdesking. Do you have normal internal extensions to test the timers with and establish a baseline function of ring groups and timers.

I could test this if i get at the office, at this moment testing it from home.

I have a lot of external hotdesking setup already, and other ring groups which have external hotdesking setup with a mix of private and work mobile phones. With the private mobile phones we use answer confirmation as to prevent going to a personal VM.

In this ring group though there are only work mobile phones, so in principle if everyone has a professional VM message it should not matter as the person can always ring back from their work mobile phone - provided they are not on holiday and are able to call back minutes, hours or even the day later.

I could change the ring group type for this one as well as to include answer confirmation, but i'm just thinking why this works as it works.

It seems the PBX seems that the call is Answered if it is routed through to the VM of the work mobile phone and then does not flow over to another member of the ring group.

[NEPhoneGuy]

The system isn't going to pull the call away from a carrier voicemail. You could try making the ringing timers shorter to avoid cell voicemails picking up. There is no standard on how many rings or seconds before carrier voicemails answer the call. Cell signal plays a big part, the caller could hear 5 rings before the cell phone gets a single ring, you have poor reception and calls go right to vm as some examples.

[MitelNoobie]

The system isn't going to pull the call away from a carrier voicemail. You could try making the ringing timers shorter to avoid cell voicemails picking up. There is no standard on how many rings or seconds before carrier voicemails answer the call. Cell signal plays a big part, the caller could hear 5 rings before the cell phone gets a single ring, you have poor reception and calls go right to vm as some examples.

The system isn't going to pull the call away from a carrier voicemail.
-> i thought so as well

You could try making the ringing timers shorter to avoid cell voicemails picking up.
-> good idea, i will test this

There is no standard on how many rings or seconds before carrier voicemails answer the call.
-> here it apparently differs per provider. some have it fixed at 15 or 20 seconds, others allow you to extend up until a minute

Cell signal plays a big part, the caller could hear 5 rings before the cell phone gets a single ring, you have poor reception and calls go right to vm as some examples
-> yeah defo

All in all i might check if the users can extend their own ringing before voicemail time, or lower the ringing timer in the PBX as you suggested.

I was under the assumption that the members of this ring group could always be in a Present state and just turn off their mobile work phone when done with a shift, as to avoid the tedious process of logging out remotely out of the PBX. Especially since they all have work mobiles versus private. The login and logout procedure isn't THAT difficult, but we have some less experienced end users.

Apart from the timers, it seems some callers will end at some point end up in VM of a work mobile. Just have to make sure i inform the users that their VM should be professional (and probably best if the message is the same on all work mobiles) and that they actually call back in time, and to log out when they are going on a holiday for example.

Or maybe they should just turn off voicemail on their work phones, and i should program a overflow point to a general VM. I guess it would be an option to have one person responsible for the general VM box, or have it forwarded as audio to a central email address. Or just mention an email address where a caller can send an email to.

Perhaps this last option is better versus multiple VMs.

[MitelNoobie]

The system isn't going to pull the call away from a carrier voicemail. You could try making the ringing timers shorter to avoid cell voicemails picking up. There is no standard on how many rings or seconds before carrier voicemails answer the call. Cell signal plays a big part, the caller could hear 5 rings before the cell phone gets a single ring, you have poor reception and calls go right to vm as some examples.

I really need some help here

As i mentioned earlier the first member of the ring group doesn't answer but is in a Present state. She accidentally misses the call, forgot to make herself absent, doesn't want to make herself absent (difficult or impossible to do on a cell phone?), is in a short meeting and hoping that other Present members will pick up (so she slides away the incoming call on her cell).

Why doesn't the system just transfer it to the next available present member?

It now either goes to the cell's VM as mentioned earlier.

I also changed her extension to use Answer confirmation, but if she doesn't answer or slides away an incoming call, it now goes to the First alternative of the originally dialed number if i am correct.

How do i get non desirable or non answered calls like these to just be presented to the next present member in the ring group? She does want to accept the bulk of all the calls except when she's not available or does not want to be available. She also doesn't want to make herself absent every time with the complicated remote feature access codes.

[ralph]

I also changed her extension to use Answer confirmation, but if she doesn't answer or slides away an incoming call, it now goes to the First alternative of the originally dialed number if i am correct.

That would be correct.

I think your close on this one.
Remove any first and second alternative options and just use the overflow within the ring group.

Ralph

[sarond]

There is a lot of reading here and I'm going to admit I didn't read the entire thread in detail.

When I have issues will the mobile answering the call, either with no answer or our of service etc. I enable "Hot Desk External User – Answer Confirmation" for their COS. This makes them press a digit (DTMF) on there mobile to answer the call. That way if mobile VM answers the system doesn't treat it as an answered call and will keep moving with the call flow.

[MitelNoobie]

I have figured out something which works for them.

I set the cascade ringing timer to the lowest option (5) and this apparently prevents the call from going to their voicemail (15 seconds).

It also helps them cycle through the ring group faster, which is what they want.

Sliding away the call makes it so that the call DOES go to the next Present member. Also not answering has the same effect. Awesome!

Only thing i noticed is that someone who is present and has the cell turned off, makes it so that the call is immediately transfered to voicemail. I think this direct transfer to voicemail in 0-1 seconds is quicker than the cascade ringing timer, and the PBX thinks that the call is answered. Then it doesn't flow on to the next Present member in the ring group.

I have asked them to be diligent and make themselves absent to prevent this behaviour.

[mark.vanderheijden]

That is normal behaviour. Mitel has no clue that a mobile is turned off.

If you don't use MiCollab you can use midcall features (if provider support this) so you can set yourself absent with a feature code.